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Post by wideawakeat4am on Aug 7, 2013 16:08:45 GMT -8
With Karen in New York and so faraway from everything she had known for so many years, I feel she was at last carving out a life of her own and some independence - something she desperately needed.
Should she have stayed there and handled the rejection by A&M differently by finding another label ?
Maybe the solo project was Karen's lifeline, but for various reasons she felt she couldn't take it ? |
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Post by maskawisiwin on Aug 8, 2013 17:48:47 GMT -8
I think Karen was in a no-win situation either way, and the reason is because she didn't feel the support and encouragement that she needed from the people that she most respected, namely A&M and Richard. If the album had been released and then flopped, it would have been hard on her. If anything, it would reinforce her dependence on Richard for success. As it stands, at least there were a few years for Karen to feel like she was in control of the project. It's interesting that she had been listening to the album just days before her passing, and it occurred to her that, YES, she did well on her own. It seems to me that she mulled it over and for a while believed that it wasn't worth releasing. Why was she still dwelling on it years later? I'm guessing that Karen was starting to re-evaluate EVERYTHING about her life -- marriage, career, family. I mean, a year in therapy in 1982 away from everyone would certainly get one thinking..? CLICK HERE FOR AN INTERESTING ARTICLE |
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Post by Rick Henry on Aug 8, 2013 21:12:13 GMT -8
Karen did not decide that her album was not worth releasing. Karen always felt her album was great from day one. The only reason she agreed to let the album be shelved is because she was coerced by A&M and Richard. Karen never once felt her album was not worthy. Karen was dwelling on it 3 years later because she did not want the album to be shelved... she wanted it to be released. Had the album been a flop, I think it would have only made her stronger and ready to work even harder on her second solo album. But, I truly do not think the album would have flopped. At the very least the album would have done moderate to very good. Think about it back in 1980 if a song like "If I Had You", "Making Love In The Afternoon" or "Guess I Just Lost My Head" was played on the radio you would have been thrilled to hear this totally hip new sound coming from Karen Carpenter. I for one would have run right down to my local record store and I would have bought it instantly. I think the album would have alienated some of the old Carpenters fans... but not all of us... and she would have gained some new younger fans. As it stands Karen was talked into (or forced) to let her album be shelved and what ended up being released instead, "Made In America", ended up being a flop. When it comes to KC's solo album I will defend it to the end. I love this album and I feel Karen and Phil Ramone did an excellent job with it. |
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Post by wideawakeat4am on Aug 10, 2013 4:15:14 GMT -8
As it stands Karen was talked into (or forced) to let her album be shelved and what ended up being released instead, "Made In America", ended up being a flop. YES ! That for me is the hardest thing to understand considering Richard and A&M's feelings about Karen's album and yet they thought 'Made in America' was ok. MIA has a few decent tracks on it, but it is pretty much an album of B sides and fillers. Considering it was a comeback album, it just was not good enough and Karen's project was a much better bet, however, it left Richard without anything to do. I think the fact that Richard felt like his career was nothing without Karen worried him to the point of making himself hate the album. Maybe it's karma that MIA flopped and that Richard's own solo album didn't do so well either ? Also, does anyone know what the sales were like for Karen's album after its 1996 release ? |
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Post by Rick Henry on Aug 11, 2013 23:29:44 GMT -8
Karen's solo album has sold more than 1 million copies worldwide... this is extremely good for an album that was released without any promotion whatsoever. Her solo album has sold more than triple of both Richard's solo albums combined. |
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woolf
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Post by woolf on Aug 14, 2013 2:09:01 GMT -8
I love Karens solo album! I agree that it would not have flopped! That is part of the reason Richard would not support it. He was afraid he would be "out" so to speak. Shame on him and A&M .
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Post by wideawakeat4am on Aug 25, 2013 14:53:13 GMT -8
I love Karens solo album! I agree that it would not have flopped! That is part of the reason Richard would not support it. He was afraid he would be "out" so to speak. Shame on him and A&M . Like I said, I think Richard got a karmic kick in the ass when he released his own solo album. |
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woolf
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Post by woolf on Aug 26, 2013 1:37:01 GMT -8
I would have to agree...
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Post by onlyyesterday on Dec 16, 2014 0:43:27 GMT -8
Just basing my opinion on the efforts of Richard "producing" Karen's voice in the studio, her voice was engineered to near perfection by Richard and the engineers at A&M Studios. Her solo album vocals did not even come close to the vocal sound Richard captured with Karen. Why that is? I can only guess. Phil Ramone could have consulted with Richard and the A&M engineers on microphones that they used for Karen, studio tricks and techniques etc.. Karen's "Carpenters" vocals had a big, fat amazing sound. Her New York recordings left her voice sounding much thinner and weaker with out the vocal presence she had on Carpenters recordings. Am I alone on this opinion?? I would sincerely like to hear others thoughts on this. I'm a huge fan of Karen's voice and the Carpenters early to mid seventies recordings. Karen's vocal performances on their Christmas recordings are some of the best renditions of these songs ever to be recorded. The Carpenters Christmas albums should really have been credited as a Karen Carpenter solo project as that is mostly what they were. It's very easy to tell that Karen absolutely put her heart and soul into those Christmas recordings.
Best Wishes!
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Post by wideawakeat4am on Dec 22, 2014 4:02:57 GMT -8
Hi Only Yesterday  The reason Karen's voice sounded a bit 'thinner and weaker' could be down to her health as much as anything else, although I'm not sure if that's really the case - I'm no expert. I think some of the songs were in a higher key than she was used too. I think that Phil produced different type of sound, but was still very much 'Karen'. They were just experimenting and trying out new things. Karen was out of her comfort zone and thriving on being so. |
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rob52
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Post by rob52 on Dec 30, 2014 8:36:41 GMT -8
When Karen's solo album came out I think like many others I wasn't sure what to make of it because it was so different but over the years I came to love it. I really didn't like disco but I could listen to "My body keeps changing my mind" all day. I think Karen could have handled the critics, after all they had to do it all their career. What she couldn't take was lack of support from Richard and A and M management .I guess I am like the guy who wrote on you tube that he would have paid to hear Karen read the phone book.
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Post by darling7879 on Aug 1, 2019 21:54:43 GMT -8
I know that Karen and Richard were not looking to "break up" by any means in June 1979. The solo albums were because after about a decade, maybe things are getting a bit stale? Try something different. And that was what it was about, try something different. Richard and Karen were actually supportive and not really competitive with one another. As Karen told me one time, "Richard is the businessman. I am the diplomat. We always work together and help each other out as best as we can."
As far as the album being shelved and such, I know of a couple incidents in 1979 that raised some eyebrows. I know also that Rod Temperton got a shot to the ribs from Karen after saying some stuff namely, "It just slipped out that Darling was one of your students. It was stupid of me. My ribs still hurt from that elbow you gave me. I meant no harm. It just slipped out was all." If Richard Carpenter is around anywhere, he would probably remember me as the boy who had the "Suppression Order" aka Gag Order on me from the Archdeacon of Canterbury, Bernard Pawley, at the time that kept a very bad and dishonest article written about Karen and myself, Adrian 'Ace' Downing III, from being published. I remember Karen and Richard discussing the article (written by someone very close to Phil Ramone) and the Suppression Order and Karen saying, "Richard is the one that knows all that legal mumbo jumbo. Richard's the brains." The Suppression Order was on me and issued in 1973 by the Archdeacon of Canterbury, Bernard Pawley, and his first assistant, Sir Nicholas Boehr. Sir Nicholas was the one who brought the article and the order and then threw it in the trash so that Karen could 'legally' get that stuff without anyone getting into trouble. Legally, neither Sir Nicholas nor myself could give that paperwork to Karen or Richard, but by throwing it in the trash, then Karen could get it that way and Richard and Karen and I got together at the school where Karen was teaching (and I was one of her students) and Richard explained to Karen that with the 'gag order' on me, that the article could not be published without the publisher getting into massive legal trouble. In other words, the article was not going to be released and Karen's name was not going to be "dragged through the mud" because of a misleading article. Honest, Karen Carpenter and I never physically touched one another, not even a hug or a handshake, but some people...
Alpert and Moss were impressed by the thought of the "physical versus emotional love" concept (Baby versus Darling) presented by Rod Temperton for Karen's solo album, but were very reserved about the "Darling is one of her students" comment that Rod made as well. Also, Phil Ramone had a bad reputation of dragging people's names through the tabloids, and that was honestly A&Ms and Richard's biggest concern. Phil had a bad habit of releasing information to the tabloids to try and generate free publicity. Tabloids never want 'decent' material. The concerns were very well founded (see about 'gag order' above) by Alpert, Moss, and Richard Carpenter. |
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